Welcome And Meet Jordan Selig

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Welcome to Microsoft Community Insight Podcast where we share insights and storage from community experts. Today we were diving into MCP Apps and App Service with our guest Jordan Slay. Could you please introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Sure. Yeah, thank you for having me today. My name is Jordan Selig. I'm a product manager with Azure App Service. I've been on the team for five years now. I just hit my anniversary last month. So uh big exciting accomplishment. I'm getting my my crystal in the mail in a couple months, I think. Um so yeah, I mean I started on the team five years ago. Um I previously worked at a large bank for four years, so I had experience working um with large enterprise customers and what that demanded. Um I was in the cloud security space, and that's what really introduced me um to the cloud. Um, it was time for a change. So I moved over to Microsoft and App Service. Um I was building a lot of apps in my free time um on services like Google Firebase and AWS Amplify. And you know, I wanted to support a product that allowed people like me to build and share my ideas with you know with others. So um got a role on App Service and I work on a number of different product areas. Um our networking, uh App Service environments are a single tenant offering. Um I was leading all of our app service CLI efforts, but that's kind of been delegated across different um teams now. Um I lead Azure policy, so security and governance for App Service. And more recently, the last about year and a half or so, I've been the lead for basically all of the um AI investments for App Service. So um my goal and my my mission that I was told to achieve was to make App Service a premier platform for AI and you know agentic workloads. So um that's really what I've been working on the last year and a half. And um, you know, I continue to work on that, and I have a lot of features in the roadmap that I'm hoping to land um in the next few months.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

So instead of like customers always go to Kubernetes, they can choice choose between go to container apps or app service. As a way you're making it more like uh agentic, when I was putting MCP for capabilities as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Right. So if you're looking for you know a full-fledged managed service, uh platform as a service pass offering, um, you're looking at you know, app service, um, Azure container apps, functions, these are the services on um on Azure that manage all of the you know operational work that you would typically have to do if you were running your apps off of a VM. And um AKS is like a semi-pass just because you still need to do all the the Kubernetes work. Um so ACA is the option if you want to you know completely abstract all that Kubernetes um details. So um, you know, we're trying to make app service, you know, at least personally, that's my goal. You know, my partner teams on apps on Azure container apps are doing you know all the AI work for them. I'm the the person responsible for app service. So uh building out new features and building out samples and demos just to show like, hey, you could do all of these agentic and AI workloads on app service.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Okay. So what's what's currently new on MCP apps at the moment?

Built-In MCP And The Easy AI Goal

SPEAKER_01 3:34

So on App Service, um, if you saw some of our build announcements a couple weeks ago, we released a new feature called built-in MCP. And this is a really cool feature because um it aligns with this overall work stream that I've created called Easy AI, which is basically taking your existing workloads on App Service and adding agents, some sort of AI functionality to them. Um App Service has been around for a long time, 10, 15 years. We have tons, you know, tons and tons of workloads already on here, a lot of workloads that were deployed, you know, 10, 15 years ago, and modernizing those to you know enable AI and agents, re-architecting those is a huge task for some of these larger companies, larger enterprises. So one of my work streams is how do we take these existing potentially legacy apps where you know the current um operations teams that manage these apps maybe don't even know what the code does. They don't even know where the code is. In some cases, we have some customers like that. So, how do we allow them to enable AI in these apps while at the same time they're they're probably re-architecting, they're probably innovating somewhere. But you know, if they want to quickly get AI agents into their into their work, you know, how do we do that for them? So the first feature was this built-in MCP feature, and it's live, it's in the portal today. We announced it at build a couple weeks ago. And what it is is um if your app has an API service, so if it has an API that can be defined with an open API spec, you give us that spec, and then we will host an MCP server on your app service and expose all of those operations, those API operations as MCP tools. So without any code changes, without any you know, changes to your app, you now have an MCP server that um allows agents to connect to your app and interact with your app following all the same networking and authentication protocols that you have already potentially implemented in your app already. So it's a really cool feature, it's really easy to use. And um I do have a demo of it a little later on if we want to go into that.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

I was wondering could you like call it from like agile scales? You know, the new things called Agile Scales. Could you call the that new MCP apps from it?

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah. So what this feature does is it literally just creates an MCP server. So you tell us the the endpoint that you want to use for this, and it's just an MCP server. So you can call that with any, you know, any agent, any client that wants to call an MCP server, it's you know open to using this. So uh no difference. We just make it really easy to create this. You don't have to build it from scratch.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Uh okay. And it would just hose in there. It does it. I take it it just you just need to endpoint to recall it.

unknown 6:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

The endpoint, and if there's any authentication on the app service, um, you'll have to account for that in your client. But there's nothing proprietary or special here. It's just, you know, we have implemented the you know the latest from you know the MCP standards and uh made it available and easy for uh our customers to use.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Okay. Uh yeah, you say you you can show us some demos, you say got some demos. So how about this thing in action?

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah, so let me just get my uh monitors here and I'll set up. I'll put you here and I will present this.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

So what's so you're constantly building now towards the MTP apps? What's after mcp apps? Is just adding new AI features between app service?

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Yeah, so so I'll get a little bit into that and it'll I think it'll be more clear when I show you some of the um some of the work we're doing inside the Azure portal.

unknown 7:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

So I'll make this a little bigger so it's a little easier to see. Okay. Um so this is an app that we built for Microsoft Build a couple weeks ago. I'll show you what that is really quickly. Um it's just an online clothing store. It's something we use for a lot of demos just because it can demonstrate a lot of the features that we um you know have been building. Um one of the things that we actually did with this app, and I don't know if you've heard of the managed instance on app service feature. Are you familiar with that?

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Manage instance? No, I've seen the managed identity thing, but no.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

So manage instance, and I'm not gonna spend too much time on it today just because I'm I'm not the expert and it's not really AI focused. Um, but some of my teammates are working on this. And if you're interested in learning more about managed instance, uh I can connect you and send you some details about that.

Managed Instance And Legacy Migration

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Um but manage instance is a way of you know, if you've had these, you know, these applications hosted on-prem that you haven't migrated to the cloud yet because of the you know, the amount of work it would take, because you need certain um controls that the cloud or app service doesn't let you control traditionally. Um Manage Instance allows you to have that OS level control um for your apps. So it's it's a really cool feature. It's gonna help a lot of customers migrate these applications that they just haven't migrated yet and migrate them quickly.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

So okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

So it's typically for legacy application for typically for legacy applications, but it can also be used for newer applications that need more control than you know, somewhere in between what app service gives today and a VM where you have to control, you know, everything. Um so um, like I said, I can definitely share more details about that. I'm yeah, to be an expert about that, but it's a really cool feature. And um, you know, a lot of our customers have expressed interest in it because you know, migrating takes a long time. It it requires a lot of changes to your apps if you know to be cloud ready. And this feature is something that will help a lot of customers get to the cloud quickly.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yeah, thanks. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

So I'm just gonna give you some scope to what this demo was. So this was an app that we migrated to um app service using the the managed instance feature. So this is a managed instance app service. And it it looks just like a standard app service in the portal. There's not really much here that you know will indicate that it's it's different, um, but it is uh a managed instance. So that that was the first part of this demo was saying, you know, here's how you take this old legacy app and bring it to the cloud. The next part was um, you know, this was uh an online shopping store. So you have like, you know, how do I, you know, I want to buy some of these items. I want to add them to my cart, I want to remove them from my cart. So, you know, the APIs that are backing this are um just the traditional APIs that you would see in an online shopping store. So um what we wanted to do is enable the um built-in MCP

Create An MCP Server In Portal

SPEAKER_01 10:40

feature. So we have this new blade in the Azure portal. It's called AI and has preview in there because we just released it, and um we'll remove that soon. But um this is what we'll be building out over the next few months as we start um releasing more of these AI features. So uh the first tab here is this MCP servers tab, and this is where you enable the built-in MCP feature. So it's as simple as, and I've already done it just in the interest of time, um, even though it only takes a minute. Um, you all you do is upload the open API spec and then provide. Let's see if I can show you some of this. You just provide details like the endpoint if you want to add a description, um and then here's where you provide any of the the off details. So it's it's super simple, it just takes a minute.

unknown 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Can you using VS Code as well? The new AI features.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

You can do this um with uh API. Uh we don't have dedicated CLI commands, but there's probably a way to hook it up with the CLI. Okay. Um so ARM API CLI. Um, so if you're in VS Code, you know there's plenty of options. Um I we are working on releasing um, and we've already done a bunch, but we're continually iterating um with the Azure skills. Um so we are continuously contributing to that to make sure that the Azure skills always have the latest information about app service and you know what we as the product group recommends. So this, if it's not already in there, will be in there soon just to say, like, if you want to enable this, here's how to do it.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

I think I should probably do this in bicep, right? Because I think it will be out already.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

For sure. So so anyway, um, this is now an MCP server. You can see the the endpoint right here.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Um, and I can connect to this through whatever client I want to connect to it, you know, from. So very simple. Um so so that was the first part of this demo. It was showing, you know, how do you take an old app and then now just add some sort of capability that allows agents to easily connect to it? And that was this feature. Now the the the next part of this demo, which um I did not go into too much detail for build, um, was the second part here.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

I'm curious to know, are you allowed to add custom tools or is it just predefined tools that's already selected? That you have to select from the application.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

So these tools, so these tools are the same tools or the same operations from your API. So it literally just takes your API, it maps each operation and creates a tool for that. So this specific open API spec, and I'll make more detail, make more sense in a minute. Um, I built some automation around the inventory management for this online store. So you'll see things like you know, get the inventory, get product, um, check stock, update stock. So that's what these tools are. So, you know.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Okay. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Okay. So um the next part is this agents tab. So that'll make more sense when I show you the next part of the demo. So um for this for this demo, we wanted to show, you know, we we added MCP. So now how do we add some agentic uh process into this app without actually changing the app code? So we thought um, can we use agents to manage the inventory for this online shopping store? So um you want to say something?

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Yeah, so would the agent just be having that B you been like constantly running, or do you need him in a loop to like so so yeah, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Um it that's completely up to you. Uh but for the purposes of this demo, I built an agent hosted on App Service. But you know, this agent could be anything, it could be you know uh a managed agent, it could be some sort of custom agent, um, anything you want that can consume the the MCP endpoint that you created. So for the purposes of this demo, and this is you know just a demo, so um I built um I actually have a little bit of a slideshow that has an architecture diagram.

Inventory Agents Powered By MCP Tools

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Okay, so the um the the box on the right is the existing app. It's just you know our legacy app, it's got our MCP server. Yeah and on the left side, this is the agentic app that I built. It's using Microsoft Agent Framework, and it has six um agents running on App Service. So these are hosted agents on App Service, and they connect to Microsoft Foundry for um the LLM. And the six agents that I built were one that that monitors inventory, so it's just checking the stock levels of the different items in the store. It's using MCP to do this. Um, and then I have a bunch of other agents that um simulate uh ordering stock and fulfilling those orders and then updating the inventory with MCP again. So um there's a lot going on behind the scenes here. Um this is pure Microsoft agent framework. Um, you know, you can see for uh the the agents that use the MCP server um to check inventory. It's just as simple as adding an endpoint and then using the the framework to build these agents, it's it's super simple.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Okay, and you can call any like agent in Azure. You can call Find your agent, you can call like SharePoint agent, different agents, even co-pilots as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Exactly. Yeah, so so the agents for this demo are all agents hosted on app service. But if I wanted to use a copilot agent, if I wanted to use like some sort of SaaS product that uses you know MCP to you know get information, I could do that. Um the purpose of this demo is using an app service agent, um, just to show that you know you can host agents on app service, it's very easy. We support Microsoft Agent Framework as well as all the other um you know traditional and and common frameworks that people are using these days.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

I think you define the agent the same as you define it in like in Foundry, like in Python and JavaScript. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Exactly. I'm just using Microsoft Agent Framework. It's platform agnostic, so it doesn't care that I'm running on App Service, it's just like five or six lines of code to define an agent. It's it's super simple. If you haven't seen Microsoft Agent Framework, you know, check it out. It runs really well on App Service. Um, I have a bunch of demos showing how to do this exact um scenario that I'm showing today.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

So um before we get back to the demo, the other piece that I'm gonna call out is um observability, monitoring your agents is also something that you know is just becoming more and more important as people start using more and more agents. And doing that on app service is also very simple. Um, if you enable um open telemetry and configure the gen AI semantics, so this is very straightforward. As you can see, it's it's like six lines of code. Um, connect your app to app insights and enable open telemetry. And the gen AI semantics are just like the agent name, the agent ID. So very simple. We will be able to provide a level of monitoring and observability for your agents that previously you would have to custom build somewhere. So um I'll show you all this.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

How about tracing, like tracing the agent, like input prompt and everything? Yeah, so I'll telemetry as well, the logs.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yeah, so if you add this to your code for your agents on app service, we have a built-in process for for showing all that. So I will show you that um in just a minute um as I take you through the next part of the demo. So um this right here is another app on App Service. Um, I'll take you into the environment variables just so you can see that it is connected to the MCP server. Um, this is that uh store app that I was showing you.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

An app service. So you can't really see the agent, but it just hosting app service behind the back end.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Right. So in reality, when you're you know running agents, you don't actually see the agents working, you just see the output. So behind the scenes, this is a very complicated you know process with six different agents doing a lot of different things. But from like an end user perspective, you know, an operator of you know a tool like this, they don't know how to use agents typically. That's for the IT teams, the operations teams just want a tool that works.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

So um this right here is the inventory for the app that we were just looking at. Um, I'm just gonna go ahead and simulate a sale just so we can see one of these items go out of stock. I have a script on the side here that just simulates a sale, so I'm gonna let that run for a second. And it's gonna randomly pick an item and a size to go out of stock. It's thinking. Okay, there we go. So I'll just refresh the page so you can see.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Oh, you're gonna buy a new one. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

So yeah, so it it picked the size medium of this, you know, this navy blazer. So this is one of the items in the store, and it decided to sell out. So um, in reality, that this should be automated, and you know, the agent should be polling and checking to see when things go out of stock. Um, for demo purposes, I have a button here. I have a button here that just says to trigger that process. So I'm gonna let this this um this start. And what it's doing is it's running all of our six agents here. So it's checking inventory, it's using MCP again to see what happened. Um, there's another agent that is connected to historical sales data. Um, so I have just a blob in Azure Storage that has all this historical sales data. So it's using that to just to say how much stock should we reorder. Um, so this is another intelligent agent that's using um reasoning to decide what you know our order should look like. And you can see we paused right here at our reorder recommendation. It's recommending that I order 20 units of this particular item because of the historical sales data. Um, see, it's giving us some explanation here for what we need. And it's also saying, you know, June is not peak season for a thick navy blazer, but here's what I think you should get. So um, you know, it's a smart process. I'm gonna approve this just so we can move forward. So now it's just running, you know, like a simulated order and then fulfillment of that order, and then it went ahead and updated our inventory. So if we go back up here, you can see that our Blazor now has 20 um items in stock. So uh really simple process. We took our app, our legacy app, and now we've added this automation to it without modifying that existing app at all to manage our inventory.

Observability With App Insights Tracing

SPEAKER_01 21:50

And when it comes to tracing and observability, like you asked, if we go back to our AI blade and we Go over to agents, we have this new view, and this view has all six of the agents that just ran and shows you all the calls, all the tokens that they were using, if there were any errors. And then you could even go into App Insights. So I'll just start with this one. And get even deeper into each of those agent calls, view all the traces, and you know, explore anything you need to with these different agents. So uh we've made it really easy to enable this feature and get this visibility um for any agentic app that you host on App Service.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Okay, yeah, it's quite easy to you see. Yeah, you go to you can find like the logs of it to see if there's any error rates and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Yeah, this is showing 24 hours, but if I move it back, you know, like 60 days, you can see a lot more activity. Um additional traces. So I mean, this is all features in App Insights. So if you're familiar with App Insights, there's a ton you could do here. Um, and we we just made it really easy to set this up and get started with this. We we want to encourage people to start hosting more of their agents on App Service. So um hopefully a feature like this encourages that.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Okay. Uh what's what was that session that you you say you did at bail so people can have a listen to if it's still recorded?

SPEAKER_01 23:25

So we did a session. Um it is recorded. I will share a link with you so that you can share in the details of the session. Um, highly recommend watching that. Um, it'll go into more details about um app service managed instance. That was the the primary focus of that session. But at the end, we did do a talk about uh this MCP feature, this agent feature, just to give people some some context um to what that was. So I will share more details with you and definitely check that one out.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Okay. So are you typically seeing more customers using these features, MCP apps, like building agents within App Service?

Picking The Right Azure Hosting Option

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Yeah, we we've had a lot of customers expressed interest in you know building MCP servers, deploying MCP servers on App Service, as well as some of our partner platforms like um Azure Functions and Azure Container Apps and AKS. Um choosing between those services, you know, is always a challenge for customers. It's like, you know, what's the best place for my situation? Um so to give some, I know we have some docs around helping you choose, but for MCP servers specifically, to give you some more um, you know, to help you choose for for app service, you know, we are a platform that allows you to you know host your server and then scale that server to a very broad and large audience with minimal you know work. You know, you can enable our always-on feature and your MCP server will be ready to go for whenever it's needed. And then you know you can have auto-scaling configured so it can scale to as many customers they need it. Functions, on the other hand, you know, is another great place to host MCP servers. It has a bunch of new features that I highly recommend checking out for this. Um, but if you're looking for that large, broad audience to use your your single MCP server over like remote connections, it's not really the best choice. App service is probably better for that. If you're looking for like a single personal tool, functions is probably better. Um, and there's other use cases for functions as well. I'm not going into great detail about that. Um, but I highly recommend you know evaluating each of these services to determine which one is the best fit for you. Um if you're familiar with app service, if you know about app services, you know, auto-scaling capabilities, security functions, uh functionality, um, MCP servers on app service inherit all of that. So you're getting the same you know SLA performance, um durability that you would be getting with you know your traditional app service now on MCP servers with you know no significant changes.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Yeah. Uh I'm curious to know, you know, that module you just deployed for GPT 4.0 that's on the screen. Is that open AI module or foundry module? How is that token used?

SPEAKER_01 26:12

So this app is connected to Azure OpenAI. Um the way Azure OpenAI works with with um Azure now is um it's basically just another Foundry resource. Foundry and um Azure OpenAI resources are basically the same thing. They're both they're basic, they're like um Microsoft.cognitive services resource provider, I think. So they're basically the same thing. Um I could have gone to Foundry and deployed any model I wanted. I picked a small cheap one just because I didn't need a you know an expensive one for for this kind of process. Um but you know that's all external from app service. Like you can use whatever model you want, you know, if you're willing to pay for it.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

So in terms of cost, does this go into app service charges or the open AI charges? Azure OpenAI when you posted.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

The tokens are gonna still cost your you know, hit your Azure OpenAI billing. Your app service billing really shouldn't it actually probably won't be impacted with an application like this because app service, you pay for your app service plan, and that's a flat fee for the month. So if you have you know our premium v4 tier, you know, our you know, what is that, like $70 a month for one of our for an instance or something, that's all it's gonna be for the month. Unless you audit you to scale it up, add more instances, then your price is gonna change. But but app service gives you very consistent billing, unlike something like functions, where you know that that can scale all the way to zero. You only pay when you're using it. So that pricing will be a little bit, you know, it'll be variable, so you won't be able to predict it as much. Um, but that could be a benefit if you don't have a lot of usage one month. App service, you're always gonna be paying an amount, and you know, you can always predict that.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Uh yeah, you get most of it, most of the the cost from the app service because you pay for what you use for that money. Right. Okay, so in terms of like app service, uh mcp apps, is there any is there a lot going on in the roadmap towards like improving it, making it better?

Roadmap: Timeouts, RAG And Token Savings

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yeah, so as I mentioned earlier, one of my focuses is this easy AI work stream. So we are working towards making features like this MCP feature, yeah, where you can enable AI functionality with minimal changes to your app. So app service as a platform is able to host really like any AI agentic workload already. There's really nothing special that we need to change on our side. Um, there is one thing uh regarding like our default timeouts that make long-running agents difficult to manage on App Service. So I am working with the team internally to extend our um our timeouts just so agents can run more long-running processes without timing out. Um that's one small fix that hopefully will help users that have faced that issue resolve that. But in terms of new features, um, you know, we want to make AI more accessible. We want to make rag um adding agents, um, you know, converting your web apps to markdown so agents consume less tokens when they read your app. Um features like this are what we are working on right now and hopefully can release a little later this year. Um all features that allow you to add AI to your apps without really changing the code or what you're what your apps do already. So um hopefully it that means that a lot of users will be able to enable these without you know excessive testing and you know process that may be involved when onboarding new um new services and new features, which I know a lot of our larger enterprise customers have to go through. And it's you know it's not an easy process. So we're trying to make this as easy as possible for everyone. Um with AI, things are changing so quickly and things are coming out so quickly that you need to adapt fast to keep up.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Yeah,

Learn Resources, Skills And Framework Support

SPEAKER_02 30:10

yeah. It's so I take it you you can where can people like is there any like any other like learning path or modules that people can go to learn more about the MCP apps? Like whether it's through the learn modules or tech?

SPEAKER_01 30:27

We have tutorials on our uh Microsoft Learn Docs. Um we are constantly updating those. Um we're now implementing some you know agentic processes to keep those updated just because things are moving so fast. Um also as a as I mentioned, keep an eye on the and keep updating the the Azure skills that you know your your agents are using. Um there's like a pre-packaged Azure Skill, you know, app service as well as all of the other services across Azure are constantly contributing to that and iterating. And that's gonna give you, you know, when you ask your agent in VS Code or wherever you're interacting with your coding agents, that's gonna give you the latest information about how to use certain features, how to apply certain features, and you know, recommendations for what features to use. So definitely keep that updated and you know, keep talking to that because that's one of your best sources that's coming directly from the product group.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Okay. I think it currently this feature is only support agent framework. Is there any plan? Maybe you don't have to say to support like maybe uh Langchain or different framework, or is it just an agent framework?

SPEAKER_01 31:36

So this agents feature supports any framework as long as you enable OpenTelemetry and the gen AI semantics. So I also just released another doc about that, and that's another link that we can we can share um after this about how to enable this kind of functionality in your app. So it's it's framework agnostic and platform agnostic. Um great feature.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Okay, brilliant.

Final Advice For Getting Started

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Uh so thanks a lot for joining this episode, Jordan. So hope everyone learned about how amazing apps the apps mcp apps is. So I've got to play around with it. It's a new tool, so I've got to tell my team colleagues. So it's amazing because I know there's two now. There is Cosmos DB, there is Function App, there might be there, there was something Logic Office. Everywhere they're building AI in Azure.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

So I think things are changing every day. It's it's it's hard to keep up.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

So AI and Kubernetes as well. So everything in the port is different. Okay. Uh any last minute advice that you want to give to someone that haven't used it before, a customer that wants to try on, or um, putting me on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Um personally, for me, like it is overwhelming keeping up with all of the the news and the features that are coming out. So, like whenever you see something, think how you can apply that to your day-to-day. And that's what I do. I'm like, I see a new feature, someone posts on LinkedIn about something they're working on. I'm like, how can I leverage that for my work? Um always be curious about you know what's coming out, what's available. Um, you know, see what works for you. There's just so much out there, and you know, eventually this will all calm down and we'll figure out you know what's actually the best process, what's the best thing. Um for now, just you know, just explore, be open to trying things, learning things. Um, I spend many hours a week, you know, as my full-time job, just playing around with new features and seeing how how can they apply to app service, how can they apply to my day-to-day to make my day you know easier, faster, quicker. Um so yeah, just be open and explore.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Brilliant. Uh so that's it's good to keep fit healthy. Okay. No, right. Thanks a lot for joining this episode. Thank you.