Welcome And Topic Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello, welcome to Microsoft Community Inscritts Podcast where we share insights from community experts that you have to take with Microsoft. Today we we will dive into Copal Pajor in PS Code. We have a special guest joining us today called Mohammed Sami. Could you please introduce yourself?

Learning Through Docs And Bug Bash

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Yeah, uh my name is Mama Samyula and I am from Pakistan and my MVP categories are SEO in developer technologies. And I'm exploring more on the deployment side. Like we all are hearding how we can use uh AI assistance while development, but nobody is seeing how we can actually use it in deploying. The frustrating part, like we actually build the applications, uh do the coding stuff, then we have to debug it. But once everything is ready, we need to make it live to make it available to everyone, but that's the actual frustration. So I've been exploring uh GitHub Copilot for Sure from the beginning, so it's now actually really nice, and there are built-in agents for each services that actually makes things much easier. And the point is, like we heard about why coding. We might see uh how we can do the testing, assigning new stuff uh to the co-pilot, and taking the feedback, working directly on the terminal and assigning uh task to co-pilot. Like it's like uh GitHub is now a headquarter for the agents, but actually it's completing the entire software development lifecycle from planning to deployment. Every step is uh handled very perfectly in uh GitHub co GitHub itself, and we'll be seeing a demo. Uh so without any further delay, let me take you directly to the repository, and from there we'll be uh seeing how we can get started directly from the GitHub by using GitHub code spaces. So you don't need to uh install any dependencies here.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Before we dive into like the demo, could you tell the the listener, audio and side, who you are, like where you're from, how long you've been mvp and stuff?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yeah, sure. So I have been MVP like from last two years. Uh I started my journey as a Microsoft student ambassador, uh, working as a student ambassador, uh, working with uh Bugbesh. Uh you might heard about it. Bugbesh is basically uh Microsoft Learn Team is giving us the documentation to review and give us the feedback and identify the user experience issues. Uh so I identify the initial bugs, and I was very confused. Like it's so perfect, like each and every uh detail is there, but I just going through and I just stop at a point. Uh so basically it's a static web app development documentation where you can deploy your application from GitHub or directly to the static web app uh by adding the zip file of your code uh files. So basically, what happened there? Like I'm going through the steps, and there is the step that git push main, and then another step you have to select the region, uh the tech stack. And I got stuck for a moment. Like, uh is there only a main branch or we can create uh more branch by our own self? But if you see from the beginning perspective, you cannot assume this thing. Like there might uh there might be someone who uh who is starting their uh journey from this documentation. So uh think like in my mind that we can actually add a node or we can add further points, like by default, there is only a main branch, uh, but you can create own your own branch and push the code in that branch as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Or did you get started within the like by reading through like Microsoft documentation? Yes, it's contributing, you started just learning as you go.

Cloud For Students Without The Fear

The Library Model For Cloud Pricing

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Uh so yeah, so basically uh I am uh learning through the Microsoft learned documentation modules and learning path. So I see this opportunity like it's basically a starting point at the confidence I needed to get into the industry because whenever I see any cloud session, whenever I see any of the technical sessions, it starts with the Linux. Everyone is talking about the Linux, and you must need the Linux and you need to uh go through the Linux command. I said, okay, but cloud is not limited to Linux. Cloud is something that uh you need something like I need to play a game, but I don't have a good computer with these uh specs required to play a specific game. So what I can do? Uh I need to buy the hardware, but I don't have uh enough uh money to uh go and purchase it. So what I did, uh I started reading it and I feel uh like I can create my own virtual uh desktop and install the game there and install the dependencies, what is required uh for the game. And I starting from there, like what I did like taking my problem and solving uh using the technologies, like uh every time I heard I feel it's too technical, or it might be only for the enterprises or for the uh organizations who are uh doing some tech stuff. But once I identify this thing, I just give it a try and I create my own virtual machine and install the game on it, and like I get the free credits actually. So I play the game for the uh for a month actually, because I have a free tier available and like uh$100, so it's actually a good thing, and even I can shut down my own machine. So I implement the entire concept in a fun way that uh might be our audience, could be a student or could be starting uh their tech journey, so it's not like you need to go through a lot of technical stuff, or you can see like if you want to do something and you feel there is a constraint, or you cannot get started with it. So there is a stuff uh that you can actually use for your own self for your personal use. Might be you want to play a game, might be you want to build your Unist project. So this is a best way to get started. And I was exploring this stuff and the bug bash uh which was I telling before, so that is a thing that I get the clarity. Like I was very confused at that time. Like to learn the cloud, I need to first master the Linux and the commands, and then I can be dive into the Linux. But once I start exploring, uh, what I did, I just enter into the SU, get the free credits, and create my own virtual desktop. And I feel like uh there is some there is something missing, which not everyone is telling us, and in tech stuff, uh they are not letting us know that we can actually use for our personal use, like they are telling the very great stuff, but not the point that is actually the needed for students, and then the point click once once uh day I was sitting in the library, and I feel like the entire cloud is working on the library model. Like I have a times of libraries from 9 to 5, and anytime I can get into the library and read the book I want, and it is not my own book, I can read as much as I can, and there is no restriction, but there is one restriction I have to leave the library before the library closes. So that's actually happening in the cloud. And uh then I get a chance uh to work with the Microsoft Line team and write the Microsoft modules, and I introduce this concept, and they are like, Wow, we never think from this perspective. Like, if beginners uh starting their journey and uh they just uh get to know, oh, it's like a library, and uh the pay as you go more. So basically, the pay as you go more is like you are borrowing a book from the library, and if you're not returning the book on the time, you have to pay a fine uh day-wise or might be weekly wise, but you have to pay a minimal fee. Similarly, if your free tier or your uh required time period exceeded, you have to pay for it.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

So then that's similar to agile credits. When it expired, then you just have to pay. Exactly. I think what you did before was just try to make the learn module fun to learn, so make it more interactive by just uh by just doing and practice first and just customize it to what you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yes, so this is a thing that uh I started from the bug bash where I identify the bugs, then media services team reach out to me. I give them a feedback on that thing, then Microsoft learned team reach out to me. Like, there is a different opportunity coming up in student ambassador program, and I taking them as a actually an opportunity because I don't know in UK, but you uh might have to get a job, you need an experience, but yeah, we do to gain the experience, you need a job, and this is a never-ending cycle. And I feel like how we can break this cycle, like how can I get into the industry and I start working in this stuff, and I feel actually exciting. Uh, and I made a lot of stuff and introducing cloud in a way that even everyone is like, Oh, we didn't think in this way, like it's actually so easy. Like, we think we need to learn a lot of stuff and we need to add the cards because in other clouds we need to add the card details, and then we can start uh start using the free tier. But in SGO, this is the best thing for a student who just need a student email, and you just need uh go and there and get the credit uh credits without adding the any card details. So that's how my journey started, and I get exciting in the uh cloud journey, and I that's how like I'm a cloud engineer. Uh now I'm working as a solution engineer at Mazic Release. So actually, I'm working in this stuff, how we can make stuff uh simpler, and how the uh teams can get most of it instead of thinking from a very complex perspective, how we can make the things simplify and build a solution like everyone needs a cost-effective solution. But if you understand your requirement clearly, so that's where we can uh cut out the cost without uh reducing any other of the services.

Turning Contributions Into Job Offers

SPEAKER_01 10:56

So that's my uh role, and that's how my journey started, and still so your journey started as being curious about Microsoft documentation, implementing it, making it fun, giving feedback, and then getting to do it to student ambassador, Microsoft Student Ambassador, and then later you're an MVP. A yeah, MVP. Okay. Uh no, as you're in a developer tech. I joined DevTech Polities. Yes. Okay, so that's a fascinating journey. So does you think all those you in for your journey? Does that help you find a job? Or is it more of a hand-on than that help you get a role?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

So basically, uh this experience helped me in cracking the job because whenever I applied, I shared my uh GitHub issues links with uh the email. I tell them that I have worked for the Microsoft, I have identified the things for the Microsoft, and here are the links, here are the modules that I uh write uh with the Microsoft land team, and they were actually so curious to learn how I did this thing, and that's how I get the get into the interview. And instead of asking about the job and roles, they first asked me how you are doing all this stuff, and I'm telling them, and they are get so excited, like wow, like they are actually get so curious, and they were like, uh, so would you like to join? Like, how that's how I uh like and when I was in final year, I secured my first internship, and still now uh like I switched four jobs and I I applied every time I wrote this stuff, and everyone is so curious, like they are actually get to know and they want to improve their departments actually, so their team fights in a way, uh, so they don't get frustrated or stressed out, instead, they get uh liking the stuff what they are doing. So that's how the best part.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Uh that I never uh get need to prepare for the interview or any specific uh yeah, that that's that's amazing because you can see that the employer wants you before the interview itself because they're asking more about your what you're doing, how you're contributing as well. So that's very important to actually vital to actually contribute to Microsoft or any contribution to help people learn. Yeah, and so I just want to point this out to the this listener. So anyone can actually contribute, whether it's an open source contribution, whether just helping other people, anyone can do that at the moment. So it's just not Mohammed. So it will be open to anyone. So as long as you you see any documentation, Microsoft Line, you can just so usually they're linked back to GitHub, so you can just raise a pull request if you want.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yes, and student ambassador programmers also change their application process. So now there is no application process, you can just go and sign up and get started with uh doing these certain tasks and become the ambassador.

Using Copilot For Deployment Planning

SPEAKER_01 14:05

That's amazing. So most students can become an student ambassador, and then that might be a route to become an MVP. That may might be a route to be able to start your uh help start your journey into maybe find a job as well. Because I see lots of employees are doing boot camp to get people training up as well. Yes, and so okay. So back to our topic of the session, Copal Foujour. You you said you have some demos, yeah. So before we dive into the Copal for journey, have you been using it at work? So, what's your opinion about it? About AI? No, Copal for journeys, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Copilot for Sure. Okay. So, first, uh like the thing is like the common point that we all face that we need to switch the screens. Like, I actually get frustrated like opening each and every uh window and searching about the documentation, but uh like cobiler itself have the functionality where you can learn while developing. So that's the concept where I get started, and uh as I my journey is on more of the cloud side. So I'm exploring from the cloud perspective. Actually, is it helpful in uh working with cloud or not, or how much we can start working with it? So once you are done with the development, you might be looking for the deployment option. And as a student, uh we might uh might have to uh deploy our application on uh the uh like first semester project, most probably, yeah. When once we get into the university and for the tech students, we have to we get a project where we have to deploy our application, and from there I start looking into the things and I start searching from a very beginner perspective. Like I am a student, I don't know about the tech and the deployment stuff. I just asking the stupid question from the co-pilot, and it uh it actually helping me. Like you can check out the service. I said I don't have uh credits, how can I get the credits? Uh so I get to know about Microsoft Force startups credits, like I if I don't have any as your account, so I can sign up using Microsoft uh like sign up uh using the Microsoft Force startups and I get the thousand dollar credits. So if you are building a final year project or get uh wanted to build a minimal viable uh product, so you can use Microsoft Force Startups credit, but getting to uh telling you if you your student email ID is not working out, in some cases it doesn't work or you get stuck, so you can uh check out the Microsoft Force Startups credit, and from there uh I search and asking about the questions, uh, like this is my project. Uh, how can I deploy it? Uh asking straightforwardly, then it gives me the options you have this these options. Then I ask what is the simple option I can deploy. Uh and secondly, uh I ask uh what if I want to make a change uh uh in my application and it automatically like CI C D pipeline setting up. So I need to ask each and every stuff, but if you are using a portal you are as your user and you know about uh deploying application using SU portal, so you can directly sign up uh on GitHub using SU portal and the CI CD pipelines uh set it up. But while using GitHub Copilot for Sure, you need uh to uh inform the copilot uh explicitly that you need uh this feature that automatically changes are detected and deployed on the application. So these are the things that I uh start looking into, and from there I start uh working on this stuff like uh basic HTML website, then the React application, then the Angular, and then moving forward uh using API app service. Like this is the first one I get to know about. Like normally we need to build an API for our back-end services, and it takes time, or we might need to use uh fast API or other APIs, Rasful APIs, uh, to get uh to connect our backend. But I find out there is a uh API app, and that sounds like really like I got curious what actually it is. So it's like uh like you deploy your web application, it is visible on the browser. So similarly, you can deploy your backend as simple as you deploying your static uh web application, and then you can use that URL as an uh API, and it actually works well. But yes, you need to set the uh networking option that it actually only listened to the front-end uh application, it is not publicly open, so then it will be uh secure way to use it. But telling you a ways that I learned from the code pilot itself, like it's actually saving my time and helping me in identifying the service that actually uh saving my time, and it's actually so easy that now I don't need to wait for uh days to make my application live and connect the back end and uh doing the troubleshooting it's like simply I can connect backend with my front end and uh make it live and it start and everything.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

It's like you stay in VS Code, you don't need to go through another portal and keep switching tab. So it's come to an end. How did you I would recommend everyone to just quickly get started with couple for sure, or it's it's try on, it's very hands-on. So, like Mohammed did uh just try to deploy something. Anything any last minute you want to say to anyone that want to learn Kev Couple for sure?

Prompting Tips And Closing Advice

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah, so the most important thing while working with Copilot, you need to be patient, you need to be uh very calm because sometimes it makes a lot of mess, and it it feels like uh like things are getting out of the hands, but uh you can actually handle with the copilot that mess, like it might not get to your point, so you can give it a try again and again, and once everything online and the best way to uh do this stuff is to write down an entire document by your own self, write down the steps what you want to do step by step, and then start giving the prompt to go file it, and then you will get the uh not 100% accurate result, but yes, you will get most of the write, and then you uh you can go in a flow and then you can deploy your application. Then the most more important thing that we always learn, uh, the best practice of from don't give a generic instruction to copilot, or don't say like build an entire application, build step by step, and then you will be getting the result. Because uh, if you are building a web application, you can build page by page, and then you can do the further changes to the responsiveness part, and then you can do the deployment. So, the best way is to uh write down your instructions, write down what you are actually planning, what you are actually expecting from the co pilot, and then start working on it. But the best part uh you can always give it a try and get into the Because nothing is getting uh out of your hands. Like this is a part of the learning, and that's how we learn and expect.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

I think you can probably use GitHub copilor instruction files for as well to before we end the episode. Is there anything you want to say, Hamid?

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Uh, I want to say just keep trying, keep learning, and keep failing. Uh, once you give it a try, definitely you will gain the experience that is actually needed, and that's how my journey started. I fail a lot, like I wrap up my entire journey in a few minutes, but that's actually takes an year, and then I get to know okay, what I'm doing wrong, what I don't have to do, and that's uh how journey goes on, and you're still learning, and the same thing for the co-pilot as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yeah, so learning never stops. Okay, thanks a lot. Bye.